In this episode of The Heal and Harm Show, I chat with amazing human and oracle and tarot deck creator Marisa de la Pena about her decks, why she took steps away from the spiritual, witchy, and tarot space, and what's inspired her to come back into the community after a few years away.

Marisa is the creator of Circo Tarot and the Persephone Tarot, and the How to Deal Tarot aquired by Harper Collins/Urban Outfitters.

We have a great conversation about Marisa's journey to tarot and magic, creating art as a way to work through pain and grief, moving away from ego, (and checking ourselves before e wreck ourselves), and the importance of moving back into the nitty gritty of spiritual work, and focusing on doing magic for/on ourselves.

We also talk about how punitive and policing aspects of the spiritual community have become, how to escape it, and how to re-enter community with what's truly important in mind. We talk about academia, the importance of using technology intelligently, and the vitality of becoming familiar with witchy/spiritual elders.

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